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  • Writer's pictureAlex Hont

Coronavirus / COVID-19 update

Updated: Mar 19, 2020

The Coronavirus or COVID-19 has caused chaos and fear around the world and the sharemarkets have certainly not escaped the shocks. Social distancing is becoming a term we are all familiar with and Chris and Alex recorded this episode from separate locations for the first time ever.

If you are wondering how the virus is impacting the economy and investment markets then #havealisten to this episode of the #mastersoffinancepodcast to find out whether we think it is an over reaction, where interest rates might be in several years time as a result of the current conditions and some suggestions on how to think about investments and portfolios from this point forward.


Please read and acknowledge the following before listening to this episode. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice or financial product advice. To receive personal financial advice or financial product advice you must first receive a Statement of Advice (SoA). You must also receive, read and understand the Product Disclosure Statement/s (PDS) of any products you are considering to ensure the product/s is suited to your needs before acting. We may discuss products, services and answer listener questions on this podcast for entertainment & illustration purposes only. We may change the name of the questioner for anonymity. It is impossible to give you personal advice on an entertainment podcast as we do not know the details of your personal financial situation.


Alex Hont 0:20

Welcome to this episode of the masters of finance podcast. This is a special edition where Chris and I are going to be talking about the virus, the Corona virus, COVID-19, whatever you want to call it, we're gonna have a bit of a look at how it's affecting the financial markets and whether or not their reaction is an overreaction, as well as some of the other impacts and fall outs from what's going on at the moment. Have a listen.

Chris Haggart 0:43

Chris Haggart and Alex Hont are authorized representatives of Moran Partners Financial Planning, any opinions expressed in this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the opinions or views of Moran Partners Financial Planning or any entity we are associated with. This podcast is for informational purposes only should not be used for or doesn't constitute investment advice.

Alex Hont 1:04

Welcome to this very special episode of the masters of finance podcast. I'm your host, Alex Hont and with me as always, is Chris Haggart.

Chris Haggart 1:11

Good afternoon, everyone. Hope you're all all well and doing okay with external events in the world at the moment.

Alex Hont 1:22

So today, the is Wednesday the 18th of March, about 2.20 in the afternoon. First time ever, Chris, that you and I are recording in different locations.

Chris Haggart 1:32

It's, we've we've gone virtual, as they say, and we're distancing ourselves from each other. So yes, both working, working from our, well I'm working from my kitchen table, I think Al you've got a dedicated office so much more comfortable than I.

Alex Hont 1:49

Yep, so here we are practicing social distancing. Because of course, we're, we're talking about the corona virus or COVID-19.

Chris Haggart 2:00

Correct, correct.

Alex Hont 2:02

And now there's any number of health reports out there. There's a whole lot of there's any number of things that you can read. But what we want to talk about is investing in this kind of a situation. Or, you know, if you're invested how, how do you deal with it? And what are our views on markets currently? And, really, are they overreacting?

Chris Haggart 2:24

Or are we headed for a multi year recession?

Alex Hont 2:29

Well, yes, I'm gonna, let's start by nailing that one on the head so that we don't have this pessimistic view permeating throughout the rest of the podcast. My view is this is an overreaction.

Chris Haggart 2:40

I 100% agree Al. I think obviously, the virus is affecting people. Obviously, there's a fair bit of fear out there but and with everybody having to stay home or practice social distancing. There's less people out in the community. Obviously less purchasing going on, obviously the cafes and the bars and the restaurants out there doing it tough. Service industries, I think I was listening to the radio that wedding florists and musicians and celebrants are all having cancellations and wondering where their next sort of paychecks gonna come from. So all of that is going to have an effect on companies in the economy as a whole. So we would expect there to be some, I guess, downturn in in the market from that respect.

Alex Hont 3:33

Yep, that's right Chris. And as listen as we look at this sort of semi live, the the all ords is about 5080 points, down 4.72% for the day. So it has been lower than this over the last two weeks. I should point out so we're not not at the we know we are higher than where we were the other day for a period of time. But this this 4.72% move in a day is a bit ho hum in the current environment, isn't it?

Chris Haggart 4:04

So we're talking about this yesterday, just sort of saying how funny it is quickly, we get adjusted to the, to the bigger numbers. It's, had this been, you know, 12 months ago or, or anytime and probably the last 10 years outside of a couple of specific periods, a 4% fall would be what the hell's going on, but it's a bit of a non event today.

Alex Hont 4:29

That's right. I mean, we've we've had some days where we've had, you know, 7, 8, 9 percent falls in a day and I mean, you know, we haven't gone up by the same magnitude of those sorts of falls. Correct. It'd be like that old adage of, you know, markets take the stairs up in the elevator down.

Chris Haggart 4:47

Correct. Yes. It's funny, the one that I did wake up to the other day when I woke up and saw the US market was down 12% that one was like a wow, like, that's a that's a big number.

Alex Hont 5:00

It's a big number in one day.

Chris Haggart 5:01

It is, it is. So, I guess well, touch wood that we haven't seen we've seen what did we see a nine and a half was it last week? But yeah, thankfully we haven't seen a 12% day just yet.

Alex Hont 5:15

Yeah. So let's move on to the reasons why we think the markets overreacted by moving 30%. Losing 30% of its value since the beginning of Feb.

Chris Haggart 5:26

Yeah. So, obviously, like, with our comments earlier, just sort of saying that, obviously, there's going to be a reduction in consumer spending within the within the economy, the demand isn't going to be there for the near term future. But the way the prices are at the moment is basically the market is assuming that we're going to have this severe recession for a number of years, and I just don't see that that's likely.

Alex Hont 5:57

Well, I mean, that's not the experience of past, previous types of epidemics and pandemics. I mean, what we've seen in the past is that the economic impact is often quite short and sharp, and it will hurt. But it will be, you know, hopefully it will be short, because we've got some, some of the the governments and central banks doing all that they can to come up with a solution.

Chris Haggart 6:18

Well, that's it just providing, obviously, Scott Morrison has come out with his small targeted small business stimulus package and one off payments to those who are on Social Security. And obviously, that's all going to help but I think that's just the start of probably what's going to come both here in Australia and around the world to basically try and stave off a very deep recession.

Alex Hont 6:46

Yeah, yeah, that's right. So I think it also will change, 'cause I'm getting the feeling I don't know about you, but I'm getting the feeling that that lockdown is coming. So um, yeah, they said, you know, it's every day. I mean, it's changing almost hour by hour, but there's some sort some sort of lockdown or some sort of social distancing. I don't know what it'll look like and I'm really not trying to be alarmist.

Chris Haggart 7:08

No I just think it's a reality like, we're at 500 on Sunday night. It's now Wednesday and Daniel Andrews has come out and said 100 and Donald Trump overnight saying 10. You know, I think we're

Alex Hont 7:22

let's, let's be clear, you're talking about gatherings?

Chris Haggart 7:24


Alex Hont 7:25

Not number of cases?

Chris Haggart 7:26

No, no, no, no. Yeah. In terms of just how many people you should be, I guess, interacting with so in enclosed spaces or otherwise. So it's, I think we are lagging behind some of the measures that are happening overseas. And I just think it's a matter of course, probably, in all likelihood end up in those scenarios as well.

Alex Hont 7:51

Yeah. So I'm getting constant communications from the primary school where my kids go that that they've been saying we haven't, we haven't been told we're closing, if you want to keep your kids home, that's fine. We are preparing for distance learning as in to say we are preparing for the point in time that comes when, when the schools will close. But there's, I think with the schools closing, they're going to try and leave it for another week or so and maybe close a week early before school holidays. And then who knows when they'll reopen after that it might you might close for an extra week, just depends on on how long, what the situation looks like after that point.

Chris Haggart 8:31

Yeah, well, correct. And I was listening to an excellent podcast probably about 10 days ago, if anyone knows who Joe Rogan is he had a interview with the head of the Center for Disease Control in the US and he was just sort of saying, you know, the, the, the virus half life or multiplication is every five days. So with our cases here, I think that we haven't seen anywhere near peak virus here yet. So as that happens, then I think the the social distancing will get more stringent in that respect.

Alex Hont 9:02

Yeah, so these things, the social distancing and the lockdown point to certainly disruptions, and into profits, small businesses will struggle. But if we look at that, let's look at share markets. And particularly, let's look at the Australian share market. These are the biggest companies operating in the country and there's no doubt that there will be some that will be hit. A lot of them will be hit. But let's think about companies and let's think about the banks bhp, these sorts of companies. We just don't think that they've that they were 30% less today than they were two weeks ago, three weeks ago.

Chris Haggart 9:39

No, definitely not. I guess the banks are one of those ones where Al and I were in an Investment Group call earlier today and just talking about what the RBA is already talking about quantitative easing, and so basically that's lending money to the economy or printing money and putting it out in circulation. So that there's lots of liquidity going around. And the presenter was just basically saying that, in the US, the experience has been that that sat on the bank's balance sheets so that they had the liquidity and then when they didn't need it, they just give it back to the central bank. So what's the likelihood of the banks going under in that scenario? It's, it's, it's low to none.

Alex Hont 10:23

I mean, I guess, you know, the, well you're right, they're not going under. But I guess the the worry would around banks would be bad loans, and, and things like that, people defaulting but but look, I think, what the point we're trying to make is that this is not a long term event. It's a shortish term event. And company's profits will be hit in the short term. But does this mean that they're going to be worth 30% less over or their earnings are going to be impacted by 30% or more over the over the next 10 years?

Chris Haggart 10:56

And that's the thing Al, the perfect thing that you've said there is in is in 10 years. So, in all likelihood, like I guess, obviously, we're all hoping for, all right, let's say worst case scenario, we're in this scenario, we're in this situation for 18 months. And

Alex Hont 11:12

I don't think it'll be that long.

Chris Haggart 11:13

But let's just say worst case scenario. So worst case scenario is we're, we're all in lockdown for 18 months, parts of the economy will, will, I guess, struggle, but then there's going to be a part of the population where working from home will be the new norm. People will continue to get paid, continue to pay their mortgages. We have a very good knack and it happened during the financial crisis, as well as getting what's called crisis fatigue and just kind of adjusting and then forgetting that, you know, it is this is the new normal in a sense, and we just get on with getting on and it's not such a big deal anymore. So there's an element of that as well.

Alex Hont 11:54

Yeah. And I just want to say like 18 months is a very pessimistic view.

Chris Haggart 11:59


Alex Hont 11:59

You know, like if we look at Wuhan, for example, they've been in lockdown in for about eight weeks and and now have seen infection rates decline or not do quite well, the rate of new infections is declining steadily. They're not getting a lot of new infections, and they're starting to let people back out to the factory workers. I think that you know, where you can't work from home. Yeah. So that that now that was probably the extreme lockdown situation where which we certainly haven't got at the moment here in Australia. But that was an eight week period. It's going to still be longer, but but that's what I mean by short and sharp.

Chris Haggart 12:36

Yeah, definitely. So let's say six months. So we're, we're in September. You know, are we going to see that those companies are the banks or big miners. Are they going to be worth 30% less because for six months or so, they didn't get all the revenue that they had been pricing previously? That like the likelihood of that or the reality of that just doesn't seem to stack up from a rational standpoint.

Alex Hont 13:05

No. And as you touched on before, Chris, this is not another GFC at all. So anyone who's saying that, you stop listening to them?

Chris Haggart 13:17

Yeah, well, we like there's obviously some aspects where, like, there's some, like potential financial contagion. But the banks like they are the government's in the central bank's learnt their lesson during the last during that financial crisis where the whole banking system was on the brink of collapse. You can see that we're to come out as it is, and this isn't a financial a financial issue. This is a, I guess, a human issue. And in that sense.

Alex Hont 13:48

That's right. So I can't see I mean, the global banking system back then was on the brink of collapse, and right now, it's pretty healthy. And I think there's a bit more ammunition for the Reserve Bank to look at quantitative easing, and they've been able to see how it's worked in the past. Whether that's great long term, I'm not sure, but it will certainly help in the short term.

Chris Haggart 14:11

I don't necessarily think I agree with you Al. There's are there are some long term implications of that. But I don't think anyone's really looking, or even considering what the what the negatives are in the longer term for now, I guess kicking the can down the road in that respect.

Alex Hont 14:26

Yeah. And I think you'd rather see people, businesses being able to carry on and still borrow and still employ people and still operate rather than worrying about what the some of the inflation issues you might come to later. Yep. So let's get on the interest rates. Chris. What are the implications for this? Because we've just seen this week we've seen the RBA cut rate, well, basically they've they're sort of saying are you indicating that tomorrow on Thursday that as a special kind of meeting, they're going to cut interest rates to .025, cut the cash rate to .25. Yeah, US has more or less cut their rates to near zero.

Chris Haggart 15:04

Yep. So just essentially means, well, assuming the banks pass it on in Australia, but I guess more typically across across the world, it just means that having debt is going to be easier to repay. And it's also going to mean that the way I guess asset pricing works is that everything starts from the cash rate. So if you lower the cash rate, you just by the way, the maths works, you essentially help prop up the valuations of companies.

Alex Hont 15:37

Well, that's right. I mean, that that, that that 10 year bond rate we see from the US or the bond yield, is that kind of that marker that that that feed the input into the calculation that helps you determine the intrinsic value of kind of all assets. And with that, at an incredibly low point, It's gonna be really interesting to see what happens to asset values from here. But I think the other important part is, is that hopefully a lot of people will be able to borrow. But if we borrow if we've, I think one of the problems we might run into, and this is kind of what we alluded to earlier is that if we let people borrow too much, the RBI won't be able to afford to raise them at anytime soon.

Chris Haggart 16:21

Yeah, correct.

Alex Hont 16:22

So there is potential for this, this low rate environment to be around for a very, very long time.

Chris Haggart 16:30

And that was that was part of Tim's, so Tim Farrelly was the the conference Alex and I were both in this morning. Basically just sort of saying that, if compared to the past, the the RBA only really needs to raise rates by about 2% versus what it would have been, I think was about five and a half percent prior to the financial crisis to have the same effect. Just by the fact that everybody from a household perspective, and some businesses are so heavily leveraged that an increase in interest rates, therefore, due to the volume of debt has the same effect. So I agree Al, I think, for a long, long time, we're going to see interest rates that are historically low compared to compared to the past.

Alex Hont 17:24

Well, let's think about this, right? If you've got an interest rate on mortgages at 4%, and you raise them by 1% to 5%, you've essentially increase the rates by the the, the interest by 25%. Right, one quarter. Yep. If you do the same thing, but from an interest rate of point two 5% and add an increase in by 1%, you've increased them by 400%.

Chris Haggart 17:47

Yep. So it's they're different quantums aren't they.

Alex Hont 17:52

That's right. So you you've quadrupled the, the, you know, the, the amount at which you have to interest, you'll have to pay

Chris Haggart 18:00

Yeah, correct. And then so that obviously has a knock on effect, because then you have less funds to do other things with.

Alex Hont 18:07

That's right. So that that will be one of those things that the RBA will will struggle to to get rates back up in an in the short term and probably in the long term. So we look one of the things that they said this morning, and I'm not sure about this, because it's always it's always hard to take this such a long sided view because things change, but they sort of said, interest rates could be low for the rest of our lifetimes.

Chris Haggart 18:35

They could be, that's an interesting one, I think, for a long way. But our lifetime's gonna be quite long, I think. And a lot can happen. Exactly right.

Alex Hont 18:45

One thing they did say, and this hurts a lot of people in that sort of retirement phase is that term deposit rates could go very close to zero if we had quantitative easing in Australia. Correct. And back to your point about banks having a lot of money on the balance sheet. One of the one of the areas that they used to compete for, for money, investors money was in the term deposit space, offer higher rates of term deposit to get their money on the balance sheet to then on lend to other people who are buying houses and whatnot.

Chris Haggart 19:15

Correct. And if they can borrow that from the Reserve Bank at close to zero, what's their incentive to pay interest rate returns to deposit holders?

Alex Hont 19:24

Exactly. So I think we're gonna see an even bigger collapse in term deposit rates. You know, we talked, we talked about the good old days. Now, even the pre GFC days where you could get five year term deposits at 8 or 9% interest.

Chris Haggart 19:39

Yeah, I remember. So I remember telling a client that's what they should be doing before the financial crisis, and then that'll happen a few years after that. They were sort of getting eight and a half percent in a term deposit seems it seems like a world away from where we are now.

Alex Hont 19:57

Yep. And I think that's probably probably going to be a distant memory for the time being. So while we're on interest rates, Chris, let's have a think about what might happen to property.

Chris Haggart 20:09

Well, typically, what happens when interest rates fall, it means people can borrow more. And if people can borrow more, it means they can pay more for their houses. So I think property direct property is probably going to hold up okay.

Alex Hont 20:24

Well, I think that that's quite true in general. But I also worry that we might have some forced sellers for particularly people that that have lost their job or their business or their source of income that, you know, even though interest rates are going down, and their mortgage repayments will decrease, if they've got no income. I don't know what their options are.

Chris Haggart 20:46

Yeah. So this is going to be probably the, well, there's lots of interesting things that are happening here in terms of, I guess something that affects a number of people across the spectrum of society, is how the bank's approach this. So, like, I don't know that they're going to be as hard as they otherwise would. But who knows? That's the that's the big question. I think I have a memory of reading an article within the last week or so that one of the banks was just saying that we're going to give repayment relief to customers. Yeah, but I can't remember which bank that was.

Alex Hont 21:21

I certainly hope so. Now that I think this point also comes back to what we touched on in our podcast of of mistakes to avoid, and I think we started with it was, was it was make sure your emergency fund is adjusted with your lifestyle.

Chris Haggart 21:37

Yeah, correct. Yeah

Alex Hont 21:38

So we talked about having an emergency fund? Yeah. We didn't, at the time when we recorded that podcast. We certainly didn't say this coming and having it referring to this, but you can see how having at least three to six months worth of living expenses, including mortgage payments available can sort of help get you out of some short term trouble.

Chris Haggart 21:59

Yeah, I think it would give those people who are in that unfortunate position at the moment a bit more, or a bit less anxiety than they would otherwise have, if they knew that, you know, I've got, you know, I've got three to six months worth of repayments put away as well as having maybe some looser regulation or follow up from the banks, just to let, so people know that they're not going to have to force sell their property.

Alex Hont 22:27

Yeah, I think you're right. So what is the what do you think is gonna take before we see a turning point for? Because I mean, at the moment, volatility is all over the place. Markets are bouncing up and down. We think that there's some value there, but what do you think is going to be the things that indicate that there might be that markets might recover? You know, what's going to, when's that going to be? what's what's going to be indicating that it's coming around the corner?

Chris Haggart 22:54

Yeah. So as we as part of, I guess, the communication that we all sent out during the week, we all kind of agree that there's two preconditions that we need to be met. I guess the first one that we normally see in in in events like this is just market capitulation. So everything's getting sold, things that would typically normally be safe havens are being sold. And we think we've already seen that.

Alex Hont 23:19

That's right, you know, margin calls. If you if you're trading with margin lending, you would have had a lot of margin calls and would have been pretty painful and you're a forced seller in that sort of a situation or or you don't have the capital.

Chris Haggart 23:31

Yeah. And even look at government bonds over the last week or so they're off two and a half 3% and bonds being the, or government bonds being the safe haven asset that they are why are people selling off like it just doesn't make sense. Typically gold which would normally be doing well during this scenario has been sold off. At this point, just as we've talked about, originally, that it's just unbridled panic. So we think we've we've met what that first condition, I guess. The second one we're looking at is peak virus.

Alex Hont 24:04

So I think once we once we start to see the number of new cases slowing down significantly, in some of the bigger places, as well, particularly Australia, in the US, because that's the kind of markets we tend to deal with more so. That's when I think people will start to have a lot more confidence that it's under control. And there's a bit more certainty around how long it will last and what it might look like.

Chris Haggart 24:29

Yeah, and I think you've used a key word in that sentence Al, was certainty. And at the moment, there isn't any. And once the we start to see some form of any kind of certainty from the health aspect, that will be I think, the the turning point.

Alex Hont 24:49

Yeah, I think you're right. So I think they're the kind of things that we're looking out for, to indicate that it might be time to stop being as defensive. Correct. But let's think about one of the things that I really want our listeners to focus on, key takeaways here is that, that this has happened quite a number of times in the past where we've seen these sorts of events. This is, you know, while every time it's different for, it's for different reasons, we often tend to respond to respond the same way.

Chris Haggart 25:21

Yeah. Which is it's, it's funny, isn't it? That's that. That human element is that for most of the time, there's a pervasion out there that the markets in financial investments are rational, but at the end of the day, there's humans behind the decision making most of the time. So we will go through periods where things aren't rational, and at the moment, they're not, I think, not rational behavior at all.

Alex Hont 25:43

Yet, what we're seeing is people that are, they're willing to sell at any price, you know, they just need they just they think I've just got to get out of this position because it's making me feel sick.

Chris Haggart 25:53

Yeah, and that's the that was the thing that I was going to say Al, is that you've kind of been banging that drum for the last week or so is that just that, I don't I don't want to feel sick anymore. I don't want to turn on the news and be Oh, my god, there's another five and a half percent today. Yeah, that and it's not. It's not we want to avoid making decisions on that basis.

Alex Hont 26:18

Yeah. So the other part I think we should focus on is that there will come a time, I don't know when that is when we start to think about becoming a bit less defensive or a bit more aggressive. Yep. And start thinking about what are some of the opportunities that are that are around? You know, we're essentially, it's sale time, you know, things are a lot less expensive than they were previously. Yep. Now, we've, as we've said, we think that there's going to be a hit on earnings in the next, in the relatively short term. But for those companies with a long with really that you have a long term outlook for and even investment markets, looking at them historically. Everything's on sale right now. And it's time to start. It will be soon. I'm not sure exactly when, but it will soon be start time to start thinking about making some more aggressive changes to your portfolios.

Chris Haggart 27:13

Yeah, definitely. I think that's why they recognized in terms of even just some of the group chats I've had with my friends today and conversations that I know, I've had with clients. And Al you talked about this with me earlier today, where the majority of the clients were talking about, without us bringing it up, but basically saying, well, when do we buy?

Alex Hont 27:34

Yeah, that's right. And so even though it might feel really uncomfortable, and it might be hard listening to all the news, try to ignore it. And try to change your view and think about this is potentially an opportunity. But also don't do anything silly.

Chris Haggart 27:57

Yeah, no, exactly. I think if if you're have held on to this point. Now is not the time to be selling. The horses bolted so don't shut the gate.

Alex Hont 28:10

Well, I think that's right. It's too late. Now, in my view, it's too late to be selling now. Yep. And selling now just crystallizes your losses, making it permanent. And often, you know what we we saw the phenomenon during the GFC. Where people, they got to about February March in 2008, which I think was close enough close. Maybe it was 2009. Close to the loss. 09. Sorry. Yeah, it got to the low point. And that's when they said I can't handle it anymore. I'm out there. And then and then they saw the markets turn around. They said, I'll wait till it recovers a bit more to get back in. Yep. And by the time they got back in, if they got back in at all, they'd missed probably the best five to 10 days on the share market for the next decade.

Chris Haggart 28:52

Or if we're talking about sick feelings in the stomach. I still come across some clients that I talk to that have, like maybe new clients that have come in and just who are potentially nervous during times like this. And I will hear directly from them saying we lost a lot of money during the financial crisis and my stomach sinks in. And my initial question is did you sell and yes, is always the response. It's, that is the surefire way to destroy your wealth and reduce your financial security and options in the future.

Alex Hont 29:30

That's right. And so I think we've talked about it before we did a whole podcast episode on on this topic of what's the value of a financial advisor? Yep. And right now, today, this week, this month, it could be a lot more than the 4% that was brought up in that Russell article in the Vanguard report.

Chris Haggart 29:47

Yeah, definitely. And this is part of our job is to sit across the table or at the end of the phone from clients and just sort of say, look, I know it feels horrible. I know it's uncomfortable, but try and lay some rational decision making on top of this scenario, because what's happening out there at the moment isn't rational.

Alex Hont 30:08

Yeah. So I hope that's cheered everybody up if anyone was was was worried or felt about thinking about how you know how bad things are and seeing the headlines and hearing about all the rubbish that goes on.

Chris Haggart 30:21

Yep. Yeah, sorry Al, I was just gonna say just try and ignore the media noise from a financial perspective.

Alex Hont 30:28

That's right. Chris and I are readily available, if anyone wants to chat and hear our views and ask any questions. So even though we're not in the office on the phone, necessarily, we're not that hard to get a hold of. So feel free to reach out.

Chris Haggart 30:45

Yeah definitely just shoot us an email and obviously if you need our mobile numbers, just just ask we'll hand those out and and have a chat to whenever you wish. I guess the one thing I just wanted to say is it's it's I want to reiterate that there is a real human element to this out there. And I hope everybody stays safe and healthy and well. And obviously there's going to be a proportion of society that that doesn't happen to. So just, yeah, just stay safe.

Alex Hont 31:19

Well said Chris. And with that I think we might wrap for this special edition of the masters of finance podcast. Stay tuned for the next hopefully normal episode of the masters of finance podcast

Chris Haggart 31:33

won't be under under such circumstances.

Alex Hont 31:37

Yep. Awesome, Chris, thank you. See you next time. Thanks.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the masters of finance podcast. You want to hear it again or hear any of our other episodes. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Spotify or you can also head over to our website at to find all the episodes and some other material that we have for you. If you want to get in touch with either Chris or I you can find us on social media or get in contact with us through the website. We hope you enjoyed this episode and look out for the next one coming soon.

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